... Where no one ever gets punished. And no one gets yelled at. And nobody disappears. And when you wake up in the morning, you can stay in bed as long as-- ('Pollo Loco').

He may have been a ruthless, psychopath, cold serial killer, but he was OUR ruthless, psychopath, cold serial killer. And we love him.


Cap from jraunlimited.com

Here's a question: Where was Ben during this whole time? And what made him go on this killing trip?!

that's a good question - I'd have to watch that ep again, but from what I remember Ben couldn't handle it (being free I mean). He felt extremely guilty for leaving Manticore which led him to the killings. Max figured that he was punishing himself through his victims because he was putting his own barcode on them. Although he came across as reserved and thoughtful individual he seemed to approve of Manticore's objectives but in the end didn't want to return there.

I wondered if Max hadn't killed Ben and he met Alec again, how it might turn out -

I agree, but what had ticked him off after all those years?

It could have been great...

I think in Manticore he believed in the lady (birgin mary) and thats all they know, Ben thorugh it was there god or type of thing. So i think when he was free and she didnt save him or look after him, he thought he had to proof his self for her, and the only way he know was being an soldier.. I think it may be something along them lines .

First, welcome to Jensen Ackles board

I agree with what you said. What keeps bother me is where had he been for about 10 years, and what was it that made him snap?

well in the Ben episode pollo loco i think it is.. Logan says there has been the same type of murders in different states. but i think they should of made it clear where he was for the past ten years.

Exactly!

I wish we had learned more about Ben, such an interesting character.

Can't agree more
And even if they couldn't bring him back, we could have still learn about him when Alec came. Although they had mentioned him being Ben's twin here and there, they could have done a lot more with it. I think. Giving us more insight on Ben through Alec, through his interaction with Max, and through Zack... After all, Zack recognized Max. Why wouldn't he recognized 'Ben'?

And thank you for bringing the cap JRAUnlimited?

I don't know it was in my "Pictures" folder and I figured the thread needed decorating.

I love the way you think Feel free to decorate all you like

Well, the question can go either here or on Alec's thread, I guess, but since this one needs a bump anyway

What do you think would have happended if Ben and Alec had met?

Ben is so introverted and totally opposite to Alec. Maybe Alec would be quite tough on him too. Ben believed in a better future outside Manticore and had Max convinced him it can be, I'm sure he'd remain positive about it. Whereas Alec was always skeptical of everything and everybody. To a certain extent he was looking after number 1 but I'm sure he'd look out for Ben too - unwillingly maybe!

Yeah, I can see that. Though I can actually see Alec as being the one to show Ben that the world isn't as bad as he thinks.
You knwo, judging by their barcodes, Ben was the older twin (though only by seconds, I guess), but somehow I see Alec acting as big brother.

that's true - I can see Alec showing Ben around - get him to relax and have fun. If Ben became anything like Alec those two would definately paint the town red in more ways than one! ... do you think there are anymore Ben/Alec clones after Max destroyed Manticore because there were still some cloned kids guarding the complex so I wonder if the 'next generation' made it out? ...

More Ben/Alec clones... I love the sound of that :sigh: Love the idea of Ben and Alec turning Seattle up side down as well

The clones part makes sense. We saw the younger version of Max, so why not a younger version(s) of Ben/Alec? (we need to tell Dustin that we want 'Alec clones' on the movie ).

thought of Alec clones lighting up the screen would be amazing - be way better than those Matrix twins that's for sure

I was watching Pollo Loco again and I just can' t for the life of me understand Ben. All those flashbacks of his childhood in Manticore and the faith in the blue lady - he didn't sound disillusioned with that belief so why did the guilt of being a soldier eat him up so badly or was there more to it?

I don't think it was the guilt of being a soldier as it was the guilt for fighting it. He wasn't what he was suppose to be, he wasn't a good soldier. He failed the Blue Lady. Or why else didn't she protect him? Them?. Like he told Max, 'You're like a wolf in sheep's clothing, Max! You're hiding your instincts, every minute of every day, so no one will know what you really are. A soldier...a hunter...a killer.' He didn't fight who he was anymore. He was just that, 'A soldier...a hunter...a killer'.

So he still believed in the Blue Lady, which is why he killed those people. Though I agree with Max, that by giving his victims his barcode he was actually killing himself over and over again... I guess that for Ben, things really did make more sense in Manticore.

Did it make sense?


Going through 'Pollo Loco' transcript I just thought of something. Well, two somethings. Ben said that "I know what my mission is. I have faith in her." What mission was that? The second thing is why Seattle? According to Logan, it appears that Ben had already committed murders in Chicago, Miami and New York (I wonder if that was the order of the killings). Anyway, why coming all the way to Seattle all of a sudden? He still had enough cities/states.

right I see what you mean! Ben was divided because he didn't want to supress who he really was. That explains why he remembered the hunt so much ... I can't sus out why he came back to Seattle either - nor the tooth pulling thing! ... in a way maybe his mission was to show people (unfortunately his victims) that they were capable of killing as much as he was. That would justify in his mind that who he actually was wasn't so bad. And he pretty much confessed he didn't like himself.

Great point on the hunt memories!

I can actually explain the tooth pulling thing. Remember that while they were kids they offered the Blue Lady their teeth? Ben said that "They make her stronger...so she can fight the Nomlies". And when Max went to Our Lady of the Sacred Heart Church, she found teeth.

I like the idea of Ben showing his victims that they were capable of killing (and it was especially stressed, in my opinion, when Father Destry pulled the triger). But he also made sure (in his mind, anyway), that they'll have the same chance to kill him as he had to kill them. When Max asked him about the barcodes he answered "They're soldiers. Worthy opponents". In his mind, he didn't kill civilians. He was a soldier, and soldiers only kill soldiers (and even that just when there's war). They protect civilians. They protect the innocents.

So Ben thought that he was in some kind of war? What do you think?

thanks for explaining Lyric, it does make sense - I forgot the flashback about the reason for the teeth ... and didn't pick up on his thoughts about his victims being soldiers I wonder what kind of war he thought he was in and who he thinks are the ones that need protecting? I hate to say it but I wish Max had let Manticore take him back for psy-ops, but it sounded like that wouldn't happen and he'd be kept with the nomolies ... and considering the condition they were in - neither option was any better. Sure it was difficult for Max to do what she did, but I'm sure the only reason she killed Ben is because he asked her - and if he didn't - I'd like to think she'd leave him for Lydecker like she threatened before.

'Pollo Loco' will air on Fri, Jan 19 on the Sci Fi Channel (USA) at 15:00 Eastern Time.