From the outset back in '00 when the series premiered, it struck me that the dystopic vision presented by Cameron and Eglee was a little too close to the probable futuristic mark for comfort, but that was also it's strength- it's edgieness.
The show successfully predicted our military operations in Iraq, our slowly spiraling economy, and the covert genetic research that is probably going on without our knowledge right now (C'mon, you think they haven't actually cloned a person yet???)
The show stretched a little on the terrorist bomb/pulse thing, but as our country changes to a service industry, it's beginning to look as if the third world is gonna have the last laugh without a nuke. This Global Economy will be a great leveler (Sad to say).
I absolutly love Max's take on it all: "They call it a depression, but people don't seem all that depressed." Life goes on.

Any other thoughts on this?


Bored rich liberal white guy Chrisisall

My journalism professor just gave a lecture inclass the other day about how the economy will likely take a downturn after an inevitable terrorist attack. Listening to it, I couldn't help but think of the Pulse and the depression in Dark Angel and the fact that 2009 is only 3 years away. This was also slightly magnified by the fact that my professor bares a striking resemblance to John Savage (Lydecker). Science fiction in general has made predictions about the future that have come true as time passed- space travel, etc.

You mean, another downward turn after another terrorist attack, don't you?
911 is, to a smaller degree, our Pulse, isn't it? Traffic-cams and the Patriot Act are paving the way to a DA-style future, IMO. And genetically altered food, babies, pets and soldiers are practically a reality. All our ones and zeroes are being turned into plain old zeroes by our own corporations. Their outsourcing jobs out of the U.S. is destroying our future, but they don't care, as their profit margin will certainly reap the short-term benefits. 'Live for today, because tomorrow might not even be there' must be their motto.
It's not ALL that bleak, but just enough to have me alarmed. America needs to start investing in itself, and the education of it's children, else we'll all be hoping there's chicken and a real grapefruit at the market this week...



Pre-Pulse Chrisisall

Chrisisall, the series premiered in 2000.

Yeah, and don't any of you find it funny how the show got cancelled just as they revealed what the breeding cult(illuminati) were planning?

That show was revealing too much!

Oops! Thanks.I keep confusing DA with Firefly as far as dates go...don't know why...
(I changed it).


Confused Chrisisall

Indeed, it one of the reasons why I was attracted to this show so much. The government/police being so corrupt and planning so many things in secret (like spying on its own people, high level military research that surfaces in the public 10 to 50 years after like the Internet, etc.). I identify a lot in my ideas and ways to Eyes Only concept, which is also a lot of why I identify with the show.

Fox is too crazy in love (and blind at that) with government and order and conservatism (ie fanatics that at the end of S2)... It must be the reason it was cancelled... At least it's the first thing I thought about.

One thing: you don't need to have a super modified body and mind to resist...

There is always hope, but you know, with how the canadian Gov and US gov is acting with it's military, it's surprising that we haven't got a great depression yet. The economy is so inflated and depends ENORMOUSLY on military spending... which is why we have to constantly war... but also because it's important to keep people scared and create an artificial ennemy, that eventually becomes real because of our actions.

There we are

You nailed it right here.
We make our enemies (have you seen "Serenity"?).

Family Values...................War
The dichotomy is astounding.
And we punish kids for fighting in school...

Max started out being all about herself. She slowly woke up and expanded her caring to others, through love. And she didn't do guns.
America needs to follow her example.


Suffering an Eyes Only deficit Chrisisall

Yeah, the thing about Dark Angel is that it's like, predicting the future. It doesn't feel like you're watching a tv show. You can get lost in that world of the future(especially when you watch the dvds).

Eyes Only is what I related to most as well.

I really want to point out the resemblance of the breeding cult to the illuminati. Because after all, they're going to be the ones to cause the impending economic collapse of America.

Hey, I just got an idea as to what else can be revealed in a third season:

What if the breeding cult detonated the electromagnetic pulse, and not the "terrorists". They could have payed the media to lie, like they got the governor to give them control over the hostage situation in "Freak Nation"!

Think about it!

That's actually brilliant! I could so see that being the case.



Conspiracy Theorist Chrisisall

Chrisisall:
It would certainly have been interesting turn, but myself, I like the world in season one more. I'm sold on the concept that "evil" created by the bad guys will come back and bite them in the ass, like the pulse, Max, et cetera (<3 Richard Morgan). I firmly believe that when discussing moving pictures, Fidelity to itself (plot, story, theme) is insanely important (and insanely unimportant when discussing adaptation). Unfortunately, I guess someone thought it was a little too close to recent events (911 et cetera) for comfort, so they sodomized it. In my world, Dark Angel ended with season one. And actually, it's not a bad ending. Quite satisfying, if only thematically (storywise even, if they haven't added that damn "ZOMG MAX IS ALIVE"-cliffhanger).

celticjedi:
Haha, I love that quote. Reminds me of Strange Days!
"Oh, yeah, that's the answer! Two million years of human evolution and that's the best idea you can come up with?"
<3 Cameron

In my world, I stopped watching during season two. But with the DVD's I could skip key stupid eps in the second season, and sort of watch the shows that feature Max and Logan.
They felt the need to toy with perfection, sad, but DA withdrawel forced me to finally find the good in the second (I thought about editing my own version of "And Jesus Brought A Casserole" so that the 'happy' end was true, but it would cheat the story to a laughable point).
TV, like life, sometimes takes some crappy turns. But like Herbal would say, It's all good.
And "She Ain't Heavy" and " Freak Nation" are really good (IMO).



Nice to meet ya Chrisisall

first season is about government secrecy and corruption, poverty, chaos, genetic research, etc. (all of which applies to today very well...)

Season two is more about discrimination/fear, fanaticism (cult as well as religion) as well as genetic research with a small apocalyptic edge All of which applies to today very nicely...

Those were the general themes in my opinion. There is also the psychological development of characters.

dandyman:
Yes, of course. The second season had its theme too. What I oppose is the sudden overnight change of Dark Angels theme. No matter how "deep" or involving your theme may be on the drawing table, contemplating theological issues, exploring existentialistic questions et cetera, all that _really_ matters is how it's presented to the viewer. The purely practical aspect of it is what determines "good" from "bad". And lets be honest, the second season didn't do so well in that area.
Just look at the "blur"-scenes for example, when Max moves inhumanly fast. In the first season, they were frakkin' beautiful, but in the second (think episode 2 or something), those scenes were incredibly tacky (yeah, I know, I suck at examples).

Chrisisall:
I must admit I *did* enjoy "Freak Nation", as well as some other brief moments spread out during the second season. It's interesting you mention that you thought about edit your own tape. So did I, with the ending I hinted in my last post. :o
Anyway, that tape does sound intriuging, let me know if you ever decide to make it. :P

Truth is, I like "Freak Nation" so much, I couldn't really think of ending it with all our peeps partying at Crash, as much as I'd like to...

Now look what you've done Chrisisall

I also loved Freak Nation a lot.

Overall I liked season two better, but season one has its strengths.... Even if I did like season two better, I still find some episodes weren't as usefull in the storyline as others, but not that much overall. Gill girl for example... the ep is not really that good in my opinion simply because it is basically a straight forward action scene exposing another manticore creation... aside from the very small Logan/Max plot in that show, not much was achieved in my opinion. Same with the halloween episode (forget the title, I'm at work ). The conclusion was great and essential, but we live a whole damned show in her dream... I didn't particularily think that was a good thing. But I find the overall theme touched better. I didn't notice the blurry thing nor would I ever had if you hadn't mentioned it (I might remember to look for it next time), special effects are just not a deciding factor down the line regarding wether I like a show/movie or not.


Go V for Vendetta & Loose Change Recent movies I watched that I found very very interesting and worth recommending (Note: Loose change is a documentary, you can watch it online through google video )

season 2 IMO was stalling on the Max/Logan stuff until the finale. I mean, from like, ep 3 to 12? there isn't even talk of finding a cure for the virus.

i think the ratings were low in s2 because everyone wanted to see Max/Logan together and it just wasn't happening

Since it seems that you guys are drifting toward comparing between the seasons, I just wanted to remind you that we have a Season vs. Season Discussions' Thread

To add to theme of thread :

Governments and police/army are getting more and more like in the show in North America. Mutants can represent Arabs (or Muslims). Religious fanaticism is everwhere. Poverty is overwhelming in so many parts of the US too. Government/army secrecy has always been to a maximum. Corruption and corporate interests are almost like in Dark Angel. The pharmaceutical company example (Shorties in Love, S1) is EXACTLY what is happening in the world today with things like stockpilling vaccines, etc. for high profits. Freak nation represents many things from the past and present.

There are almost inifinte links to be made

there are parallels but I think there was much more to it - specially the connection between cult and cloning work - not sure if anyone remembers around the time DA ended there was news of scientists/group claiming to have cloned four human babies, the company had links to a cult whose agenda I can't remember right now. The group are based in France I believe. My memory is really vague on all this but does anyone remember what I'm talking about? It went all hush, hush after that because the scientific community were skeptical at the lack of evidence and also wanted to distance itself from the religious agenda.

It's come to my attention that the sex-slave trade actually still exists in limited areas of the world, and people have been known to be marched off ships at sea, just as described by Logan.
The show gave us an interesting framework to view certain versions of real-life events and situations, and also act as a warning (as most good sci-fi does).
Not sure about the cloning as mentioned above, but I'm SURE that kind of thing goes on (I mean, not like an army of clones...yet...).

Makes you wonder, is the final aim of those pulling the strings like those of Logan's uncle? To have drunken dinner parties at the public's expense?
Or like White's cult, just wanting power for the sake of re-making the world in their own image?


The Chrisisall Agenda

A few additional comments:

Raelians are the one you are referring to shiri&... the leader of the cult believes he was abducted by aliens and I forget why he lures all those people into his cult besides for their money... but he does.

Sex-slave trade as well as organ donor industry are in the top 4 most lucrative markets in the whole world (no1 is drugs). Sex-slave trade is NOT a limited geography phenomenon, but is present ALL OVER the world... most likely even your own city.

The military does all sorts of research we don't hear about so I wouldn't be surprised if they are involved in genetic engineering in some way or another.

breeding cult= the illuminati

that's the one! I remember seeing it on BBC news
they are linked to Cloneaid who aim (at vunerable people IMO) to clone dead loved ones, and also help infertile couples, obviously at huge cost/investment.

As you say, the military has researched human genetic engineering for years and there are now lots of books/movies on the subject. I wonder when they first considered it, how far that research goes back ...

The illuminati theory is deep in consipary and theories... hard to pin anyting on it as it is near impossible to determine what they were really about. There is only a small historic fact that people generally agree upon dating back to the 1700's. The rest seems to be more speculation. Doesn't mean it isn't true, but that's my judgment based on very very little reading

the show was cancelled just as they were revealing what the breeding cult was about

aren't most of these 'breeding' cults about the search for immortality (in some shape or form) anyway

breeding cults can be linked to immortality, but I really doubt there are very many that actually exist... Illuminati I don't think were a breeding cult...

Breeding cults can be aimed at survival (hence immortality) or power...

i didn't say the illuminati are a breeding cult, i was trying to say that in the show, the breeding cult represents the illuminati.

But unlike in the movies, no super-secret city-sized underground facility, more likely a dark, marginally equipped basement in Jersey City....or Gillette.....


Conspiracy-minded Chrisisall

What about the economics of Dark Angel's world? Are we not sliding toward that as we type? The ones and zeroes don't have to all become zeroes to bring us to our knees, our governments will do it for us, with debt and endless war...don't you think?


The Economist Chrisisall

"People get the govt. they deserve," ie - the govt. isn't doing it to us, we're doing it to the govt, who's doing it to us.

The U.S. political problems date back a century to the Populist movement and the erm... 19th? Amendment, when senators became popularly elected: prior to that, they were elected by their respective state legislatures or appointed by the governor [& ratified by the state's house(s).] This was as the founding fathers intended, as they were well aware that democracies don't last! By not being popularly elected, senators would be free to take the long view of what's best for the nation rather than trying to get their share of the slop at the govt. trough for their constituency so they could get reelected the next time round, unlike their Congressional counterparts, who're supposed to be fighting for their smaller (& therefore more accountable) constituencies.

Anyway, school's out: the upshot is that a democracy w/ universal suffrage means that the 1/2 of the population who are of below average intelligence have just as much say as the 1/2 who can think well enough to parse the lies a politician utters [no bias here: there're liars on both sides of the aisle!] and therefore have some clue who should never hold office... And we end up w/ the rabble voting themselves largesse from the govts' purse, and the people who are actually keeping the country afloat becoming ever more diligent in their efforts to hide their wealth overseas, etc. etc. until the whole thing goes bust. Bingo! Post pulse America, and once the govt is no longer giving handouts, the layabouts get up on their hind legs and hi-tail it for some other place where they can live off the efforts of others, leaving serious freedom fighters like Max & Logan behind to try to stage another war of independence...

NewsBlaze uses Dark Angel in an article dealing with the current economic crisis, "The Economic Crisis Finds Faith in Detroit."

Doh! The Day of the Pulse came & went & I missed it... I meant to take the day off & go up to Fox studios. [sigh] Life used to be much more fun when I was single!