Part One aired last night in the UK.

Lots of people thought it was fantastic, but I was a little disappointed in the storyline. Why would the government want to remove Torchwood form existence when they know they could help with the problem?

I guess we'll find out something more specific about the problem that will answer that, over the next few nights, but it doesn't make sense at the moment. Nor does it make sense that they'd go about removing Torchwood by setting a bomb inside Jack and causing it and him to blow up the whole hub in such a HUGE explosion - given where it's situated and the fact so many innocent people will also be killed in the blast!

Totally didn't make sense to me and spoiled it a bit.

I also want to know what the new secretaries agenda really is????

And Jack has a daughter and a grandson??? Since when!?! I don't really like that he does, but I don't know why I did like how we saw more of Ianto's family though.

Both went looking for kids they're related to and couldn't get any of them They all have disfunctional families! Poor Jack and Ianto

And is Gewn pregnant just to give them a way to ensure Jack got accidentally scanned and found the bomb in time to save Ianto and Gwen? If so, I'm sure they could have found a better way to accidentally scan him!

BUT, despite this, I did enjoy it. It was action packed, and the children storyline is intriguing... Can't wait for tonight's episode!

The only reason I can guess at is that the government types are infiltrated ,controlled by or in cahoots with the Aliens.

Was a shock about the Doc...thought he was going to be the new Owen.

I figure the secretary will, at some point, help Torchwood and could be the new Tosh.

Loved THE KISS...it was better than the 2 Captains kiss. Liked Ianto's family as well. Didn't mind the Jack's got a daughter but who was her mother?? The old lady from the fairy episode?

Anyway, can't wait for the next one!

Digesting comments later but I really liked it.

Spook~ I figure there is part of the Government is feeling the takeover in inevitable so they are helping to get rid of Torchwood. I'm perfectly OK with conspiracy theories.

B~ Not he old lady from the fairy stories. Remember she thought Jack was his dad? If he'd fathered a kid with her then that doesn't work. I remember a scene where Jack was looking at himself in old timey clothes with a women in wedding clothes. So we knew he'd been married at some point. I can't remember the ep. I think it was in first season when everyone was betraying him for the one they loved.

More later

Ah, that's right. Poor Jack...seems like a great thing to be immortal but leaving everyone you love behind time after time. I don't know if that's so great.
Nice how he does survive EVERYTHING though. Next episode looks to be a rough return to the living for Jack.

Yeah the return was pretty awful Poor Jack. The the whole cement thing. Geesh. Pinging lots of nightmare terrors.

Where did Gwen get a sonic screwdriver?? They'll have to cut that full frontal scene of Jack on BBCa. Even if it was a bit obscured not enough for this country.

Poor Ianto His clue to his sis. Where Dad broke my leg. That's sad.

YUP, the whole conspiracy thing played out just like I thought. I like the secretary girl. So I guess they are setting us up for their own version of the Doctor Who change. Who will join Torchwood team next year? The Doctor, nope betrayed and dead. The helpful secretary? Reese? Gwen's cop friend who's been wanting in forever?

PC Andy? Oh, I would LOVE that...him and his Spooky-doos.


I'must say I was pretty sure Gwen and Rhys were finished when surrounded by all those troops. Then there comes Ianto to the rescue. Didn't know he had it in him. But where Jack's concerned whatever is necessary, I guess. Rough for him to have to break Jack out of that concrete. But points for good thinking!

Is the hub gone for good?? What about the pterodactyl??? It's Jack and Ianto's baby If the fancy new BBC1 budget is getting rid of the old set boo!!!!

RTD really has taken a page out of Moffat's book. Keeping the big bad as vague as possible and let the audiance's imagination take care of it. OK the "gay" overture is starting to take me out of the story some and feeling RTD soapbox. Old guy smelling Ianto as "queer". I'm all for Ianto and Jack's relationship but it needs to be "it's not because I'm gay, it's because I love THAT person" The gay soapbox just pisses me off.

I do always love Whoverse taking a gig at American Government. We're such asses.

Oh and must comment on the full frontal of Jack in P2 He looks to have quite the package. It surely won't make the BBCa cut.

B~ Agreed PC Andy rocks. He deserves a spot on the team.

OK end of p3??? Shades of the Faery story from S1 where Jack let the little girl go. But even then the little girl WANTED to go live with the Faeries. The old man proves those kids were unwilling and sacrificed. Funny how Scapegoat/governmentJohn said Jack wouldn't hurt his family when told they had Jack's daughter, cause Jack was a better man than him. How does that work when Jack gave the kids away to 456 the first time?

I think Jack was married more than once since leaving the Doctor and Rose. That pic of Jack in wedding clothes was OLDER than what people wore in the 60's and that would have been when they'd gotten married, IF they'd gotten married. And Mom was also Torchwood??? Lot's going on. They are doing a good job having to work a 5 hour storyline.

Oh and they are overusing the set of brick buildings where the team was blown up by John Hart last year. I'm starting to recognize it about every other ep now They need to dress it better and shoot from different angles. I mean, all that stuff filmed on the NC coast is in the same damn places and they look completely different. The only reason I recognize them is I know the area well in person. They always manage to make them look different in film.

Yes, the Hub is gone. That's what all this hoopla about 5 eppies this year was about. They say they are building a bigger better set/Hub and didn't want to rush it. The first eppie got 6 million (nearly) watching as opposed to the 2.9 and 3.5 ish numbers they had for season 1 and 2 so they should be well pleased.



Just saw #4.....

OK, I'm loving the whole series so far - apart from a few niggles.

The hub - it had a huge morgue in it, so why didn't they find more body parts? Both human and alien? They wouldn't all have been blown to smithereens! And what about the pterydactyl?

I actually don't like that Jack has a daughter and a grandson. Don't know why - I just don't... But he's obviously had a lot of relationships over the years - so I'd be surprised if her hasn't got more relatives over the centuries

They killed Ianto? Why???????? There soon won't be any Torchwood left!

I reckon Lois will become a Torchwood member soon.

Loved how Rhys told Jack where to get off when he threw away the comment about being a fully fledged Torchwood team member after writing "Hub 2" on the wall

Sadly, I could see the real government acting like this one is currently doing. I really can. Scary thought that...

I hate that Jack gave away those 12 children in 1965 and didn't seem to care. It doesn't seem like the real Jack.

Can't wait to find how it's all resolved. Obviously 456 can kill without effort, so how are they going to fight that??


Btw, did no-one spot I put the wrong title for the series on the thread? I called it Children of the Dead - because I was typing it while chatting to workmates about death

OMG I just had a horrible thought. Do you think they will add the mean woman whose been chasing Torchwood to the team now that she is getting a look at who she's been working for?

I sincerely hope not. And I doubt it - I can't see them wanting someone that is prepared to do what she did (even following orders).

Is Ianto really going to stay dead??? He's way more popular than frellin Gwen!!!! can't even discuss this ep. NOOOO

And what's with the decimation obsession? Yes RTD we got that "decimation" means 10% of a population from Doctor Who. I hate you for killing Ianto!!! I hate you!!! May your precious balls fall off

So to restart Torchwood they'll have Jack...maybe, Gwen, Lois Habiba, mean soldier-lady,and still needing a doctor (the last likely candidate didn't work out so good. )

They need at least one more strong male....reappearance of Captain John anyone?




It was amazing to have a whole week's worth of a story like this....but now we wait for how long till we know if there's even going to be more? Hope they will be forthcoming at Comic Con with what lies ahead.

From what I'm hearing I'm not sure I even want to see the last ep. The ONLY way to redeem for me at this point if spoiler are true is to bring Captain John back as lead. I really HATE RTD. I think he hates us. Joss does kill, Farscape, BSG killed but I never had the "F*ck you fans" feeling I get with RTD. No wonder Barrowman was angry about this.

This was a brilliant week of tv. Really dark but so thought-provoking. Now what I NEED is some assurance that there will be more.


Actually with the numbers they've pulled all week, BBC ought to be well pleased.

What BBC WON'T be pleased at will be I'm sure word will get out and the americans won't watch. They've been enjoying the American influx of cash. I think very few people will be interested in any more Torchwood with what is left. The LEAST favorite character, who is pregnant in RL. Oh joy :sarcasmsmilie:

Granted, I wouldn't watch the Gwen Show...even if it was Gwen and Jack. But I doubt that's what it will be. I could like Lois....don't know about mean woman. But they seriously need a good charismatic guy to round things out.



Hope the pterydactal survived.

I actually watched the last ep. .....I've calmed down some but only slightly. The only way I'd watch more Torchwood is if they brought Captain John back as lead and even then I'd have a hell of a time trusting RTD. I've had issues with him for a while, both with Torchwood and Doctor Who. I don't like his soapboxes. I don't like his monsters. I really feel like he doesn't want to make any more TV {with his breaking into movies with the Doctor Who movie} and he was afraid the BBC would give his Torchwood toy to someone else and so he broke it.

The saddest thing is 90% of these 5 eps were brilliant TV. I just don't think, in these troubled times globally, it's a good idea to make this kind of TV. I'm a huge fan of dark but you just DON'T break your hero like that. It's too bleak. Hell, even BSG the darkest most hopeless show ever on ended with a possible hopeful message. This got JAMMED down our throats not just as a bitter pill but to choked and killed us. Buffy died TWICE but even with the real time in season 5 there was closure and she sacrificed herself. I was even fine with the S4 ending of Farscape cause again, Aeryn and John had closure. Dark stuff happens all the time on Doctor Who but they damage him but he doesn't break.

I really don't think that this mini will make the $$$ numbers on BBCa. I think a lot of people will be spoiled {how can you not} and people will chose not to watch. I also think this will kill DVD sales. I truely hope it breaks RTD's career. I hope he catches hell at CC. He's always had great disdain for interaction with any fans. As a matter of fact he's been downright rude about it. So he thinks fans can be bad, hell yeah, they can be and I hope to hell CC is every nightmare he's ever had.

apparently James Moran has already been feeling the heat


http://jamesmoran.blogspot.com/2009/07/stepping-back.html

I absolutely hated the last ep.

No way in the world (or universe) will I believe that Jack would sacrifice his grandson in that way. Or any child, come to that. It just wasn't in the character.

I hated how Jack was so broken. He just gave up. He never gives up! Yes, he was grieving for Ianto - but that usually makes him come out fighting more, not give up.

I can't believe they really did kill Ianto - the most popular character after Jack himself.

They have effectively killed Torchwood. It really is no wonder John Barrowman was so outspoken about it all - and so mad - just before it aired.


I strongly suspect the writing team wouldn't have expected such a negative backlash. I agree people shouldn't get personal. That's not on. But even the polite people seem to have disagreed strongly with the storyline in places.

I totally disagree with some of them - the last ep mostly! (I can tke them killing Ianto - it did fit the story - but the last ep. Totally wasn't right! Just wasn't Torchwood or Jack Harkness.

I totally blame RTD. I think he just dragged a lot of people down with him I'm sorry a writer who has been nice and open has had to deal with RTD backlash cause people can't get to RTD.

That said, if they didn't expect backlash on this they surely live in a non human bubble.

RTD has an Ianto/Jack tribute video on his site. John Barrowman sings.



http://www.russelltdavies.com/



thanks to deborah37 for the head's up!

WOW that's amazing!! I wish it was bigger.

I heard it was pretty impressive!


Oh, you mean the video?

I have that song on one of my JB CDs (I have several... Pip and I love them! ).

An adult friend heard it playing once and commented that it was 2 men singing. Pip heard it and it was totally natural for - didn't give it a thought that 2 men were singing it. And that was before she knew JB is gay!

This is the week that COE is shown in the USA. Be interesting to read the reactions here.

Didn't it start in the US? I guess everyone is wrapped up in CC.

Yeppers, it started Monday the 20th thru 24th. They will also be repeating it on BBCA on Sunday starting with The Hub at 1pm, all 5 episodes of COE and followed by a new Dr. Who program.

I see evilness has taken down the tribute. Does anyone know where else it might be. What was the name of the song?

It was from John Barrowman's latest CD "Music,Music,Music" ...the song was I Know Him So Well.

Why take down the tribute so soon????? I suppose it's not on YouTube? (I couldn't find it, but I'm useless at finding stuff there...)

There are a bunch of Ianto/Captain John tributes on You Tube. Here is one using the song "I Know Him So Well" and sung by John Barrowman. It is nice....though not the exact same one that was on RTD's site.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1R4_SON3Hs

I agree Spook, I’m still floored with Jack’s action or maybe his inaction . This is not the Jack we know.

What’s next for this show?

AS, Berry, Spook & Vin .... Interloper here... I just noticed this thread. (That's what happens when I'm an ostrich and spend all my MB time burying my "cyber head" in the OTO/Twi-boards...)




I'm just annoyed that the BBC pixilated Captain Jack in his concrete "coming out" scene. No "Jack gift packages" on my TV.
O Well.


ITA, I find it difficult to accept what Jack did to his grandson. Ianto I can understand, I guess. ...But I'm still getting over Tosh's death. Is it RTD's intention to give Captain Jack a whole new Torchwood group to work with?

"The Gwen Show?" I don't think I'd be interested in seeing that.


What's the news of a new Torchwood series/season? I had heard that it would be long in coming and that it would be a short series, too. I depend on your guys to keep me informed.

I’m with you Tekgirl, while I like Gwen, I hope Torchwood remain in Jack’s hands . I don’t know what is next for this show , that’s why I dropped in, sorry. I was hoping for news too.

There are no news, unfortunately.

RTD said that he doesn't expect a decision from the Beeb before the end of the year which made me think that the Beeb might be waiting to see the audience's reaction to Captain Jack in DW before they make their decision. That's just pure speculation on my part tho. I just can't see why a decision would be taking so long to make?

Thanks Maja

I've just read John Barrowman's latest autobiograpy. He speaks about Torchwood in it and what he thought about S3. His opinion on it being shortened from 13 eps to 5, and the loss of major cast members and how he was asked to play Jack.

From his words, I'd say he thought the same as us here. He wasn't happy at all. And he thought Torchwood was being killed by the BBC...