By Christina Radish
Supermodel Heidi Klum has returned to the popular reality competition Project Runway, heading a panel of industry luminaries, including top women’s and men’s wear designer Michael Kors and Elle magazine fashion director Nina Garcia, along with various special guest judges. Tim Gunn, Chief Creative Officer at Liz Claiborne, Inc. is also back as a mentor to the contestants as they navigate weekly fashion challenges, on the road to becoming the next big fashion designer.
In what is already proving to be the most exciting season yet, some of the biggest names in fashion, sports and design will guest star on season 4 of the three-time Emmy-nominated series. Klum and Gunn talk to MediaBlvd Magazine about what is in store for the clothing designers this time around.
MediaBlvd Magazine> How does the cast rank this season, compared to previous seasons?
Tim Gunn> With each successive season of Project Runway, the group of designers has been stronger. And, season 4 is our strongest group yet.
Heidi Klum> I think it had something to do with the fact that so many people see the credibility of the show and that you really have to have talent, in order to succeed or even to get on the show with us. I think that people see that and go, “Wow, this could be a really big opportunity for me.” A lot of really good designers out there are now trying to participate and to get on the show, so each year, the designers have become better and better. The fourth season definitely has one of the best set of designers yet. They’re great technicians. They have great ideas and they are just really talented, all around.
Tim> And, the fact that the designers do see the show as a positive vehicle for their careers is, at least in my view, the greatest compliment we could have.
MediaBlvd> What is the wow factor that you’re looking for this time around?
Heidi> Obviously, the judges and Tim know what the challenge is, but I don’t see the designers for one or two days. Tim sees them more backstage, and watches them evolve. The judges and I sit in chairs and see what they’ve come up with from the challenge that we gave them. So, for me, the wow effect is when they come around the corner and we see what they have done. Everyone has the same challenge, so we get to see who was the most inventive, the most creative and technically the best, and who really has a vision and stands out, compared with everyone else on that runway. The most spectacular moment is when they come around the corner, for the very first time, and I see them on that runway. Sometimes, it’s just amazing when, even if it’s a very hard challenge, or a matter of money, they make something that looks like it would cost $2,000 or $3,000. That is like, “Wow, that garment doesn’t look like it cost $20. That garment looks like it cost a few thousand dollars.” But, from challenge to challenge, it’s always different, and it’s always a surprise. My favorite bit of the whole show is when I see the model come onto the runway, for the first time, and you get to see if she looks amazing or not.
MediaBlvd> Tim, since you have a lot of hands-on work with the designers, every day, are you able to see right away who is going to be in the top?
Tim> Honestly, I’m the worst judge of these things. The people that I think, “Oh, this person’s going to be a shoe in,” end up not being perhaps as strong as I may have expected. And, people I’m perhaps a little concerned about, end up just taking off and having an incredible trajectory. I will say, with absolute impunity, that each of the 15 designers on this season’s show, from the onset, any one of them could win the entire thing. There was no one on the show about whom I thought, “Oh, they’ll only last two or three challenges, and then they’re going to be gone.” But, the fact that we don’t have any breaks, and we just keep going, the entire 30 days, has its effect on people, and you never know what effect it will have.
MediaBlvd> Who comes up with the challenges, and how do keep them fresh each year?
Heidi> We all do. Basically, we all kick them around. And then, whatever challenges are the best will make it. One challenge that I came up with was the “Clothes Off Your Back.” I was literally in the shower and thought, “What about if they have to redesign the clothes that they’re wearing?” And so, that’s how it happens. Everyone throws in their ideas, and sometimes they’re good, but sometimes they’re not. Sometimes, it’s the beginning of a good challenge, but someone else will bring it to the next level and make it even better. We work very well together, on coming up with all those things.
Tim> It’s the one case that I know of where design by committee really works.
MediaBlvd> Do either of you have a favorite past challenge?
Heidi> I loved our very first challenge ever. Before we actually did it, I said to Harvey, “I don’t know. This can go really wrong. They are used to doing things with fabric, and you want to do that challenge as the first challenge?” That set the tone of our show. We gambled a little bit, in that the first challenge, because they had to go to the grocery store and run around with $50. They could take whatever they found in the store, and it was so amazing. I was so excited about how it turned out, in the end, because I didn’t know if it would work. They had two days to do it, and I saw what they came up with, for the first time, on the show. I was stunned. There was all these amazing things that came out of that first challenge, where people who are not designers, and who don’t have that vision, probably would’ve made a thing that looked like my 3-year-old daughter did it.
Tim> I’m in total agreement. It was phenomenal.
MediaBlvd> How are the previous winners doing these days?
Tim> They’re really doing well. Chloe Dao has expanded her business in Houston. And, I even heard from her recently that she was talking to Neiman Marcus about the possibility of a line. She’s been on QVC three times, and sold out. I saw Jeffrey Sebelia in New York, during Fashion Week. He has a showroom on 57th Street, and I met him there to see his line. He’d sold out. And, I believe he also just participated in Los Angeles Fashion Week. And, many of the people who didn’t win are doing well.
Heidi> I was just shopping at The Grove in Hollywood and, all of sudden, I saw something and thought, “Oh, that’s cool,” and then I realized it was designed by Jeffrey Sebelia. I had no idea that he was selling at that store. We do get updated on things that people are doing, but we don’t always know. Plus, I can’t be everywhere at the same time.
MediaBlvd> Who have been your all-time favorite designers to watch throughout the seasons?
Heidi> We have someone on the show right now, who I’m totally rooting for, who has been amazing. And, I did like Chloe Dao a lot. I think that she was consistent. She was innovative. She also had a real smarts and brains about her, the way she would speak about her clothes. And, she’s a business person. She actually converted her experience on the show to a reality, which I think is very important. It’s one thing to be really great on television, but then you come back to reality and some don’t really last. After the show is over, you still have to work just as hard, maybe even more so, to succeed out there. The business is tough. There are a lot of people that want to be designers, so you have to keep going, and I think that she is definitely someone that keeps going. When we shot season 4, she would send me a ton of clothes and say, “Hey, you can wear these on Project Runway 4, or let me know if you want different colors,” which is very smart of her to do.
MediaBlvd> Who has been your all-time favorite villain or drama queen?
Heidi> My favorite drama queen really was Santino. He was not only a great designer, but the things that came out of his mouth sometimes were just unbelievable, and sometimes very over-the-top. Sometimes, they had to think about whether what he said could even be aired, or if it has to be bleeped. But, I liked that he was so blunt and just straight forward. But, at the same time, he made it on there because he was really good and, ultimately, he made it all the way to the end.
Tim> I found Santino to also be very loveable. But, I had a relationship with him because I was in the workroom all the time.
MediaBlvd> You’ve both been very successful in your fields, so what was the initial appeal of doing a reality show?
Tim> For me, since I’ve spent 29 years of my professional career in the classroom, it’s a way of working with mature designers who already have industry experience. And, I work with them in a capacity that’s enhanced from that which I work with my students. Also, I’m just in favor of doing anything that helps support our industry and helps move it forward in a positive way. When I was first approached about the show, my role didn’t even exist. I did say to them, “This industry is in enough trouble without Fashion Reality TV.” But, when I realized that it’s the Project Greenlight producers and that they have a seriousness of purpose and a huge integrity, I thought, “Well, let’s see where this can take us.” I was instantly placated when they said that they wanted to work with real designers, and not just fashion designer wannabes.
Heidi> I started creating the show with Harvey Weinstein and Desiree Gruber. It was something that originally came from Harvey because he wanted to do something about fashion. I had said to him, “Don’t you think it’s maybe a little bit late because there are so many reality television shows out there?” And, he said, “No, there’s nothing about fashion. But, how can we make this interesting?” So, we thought about it for a long time and then finally had the idea of what the concept of the show would be. It was about making it real, giving people a chance and showing some talent. A lot of the shows out there are about eating worms, and showing weird things that people have to do, but no one really shows true talent, where they can actually go into a job that people really admire and can dream about when they sit at home and watch these people make clothes, sometimes out of $20, or out of garbage, or out of groceries, which are all things we’ve had them do. It was very exciting for me to put something out there that actually makes some sense, and shows some talent, and shows people that can actually do something.
Tim> I’ll just add that, yes, it’s a reality show and, yes, it’s a competition, in that it documents the creative process, but in a very real way, there’s something educational about the show.
MediaBlvd> Heidi, how has your career as a model benefitted you on the show?
Heidi> It’s hard to say. I’m one of the producers on the show, and I’m one of the judges, but I’m not a designer. I’ve designed things, but I can’t actually do the whole thing, from A to Z. I don’t know how to sew. I have ideas and I can ask someone else to do it, but I couldn’t do it myself.
MediaBlvd> Compared to every other reality show on television right now, why should viewers watch this show?
Heidi> That’s hard for me to say because I don’t really watch that much TV, so I don’t know what all is out there, to be quite honest. But, I think that we have a great show. I think that our show was a really small show, in the beginning. We didn’t advertise it much, and it wasn’t the biggest budget show on the planet. We don’t have special effects. It’s very straight forward. But, it has a lot of integrity and it has real people on there. It is a reality show with real people doing real things.
MediaBlvd> In the first episode of this season, one of the designers said that life is too short to wear bad clothes. Do you believe that, or do you allow yourselves to have sloppy, dressed-down moments?
Heidi> Personally, I think people have to wear what they want to wear. I think that’s what makes us all different and unique. I think you should show your personality. It’s hard for people to always say, “This is right and this is wrong.” We’re professionals, so we look at it on a different level from what we’ve seen and what is out there. It’s a little bit different because it’s more on a professional level. But, when look out there, on the street, at what people are wearing, you have to be unique and wear what you want to wear.
Tim> People need to accept a responsibility for what they wear. You just have to have an awareness that whatever it is, good, bad or indifferent, you made a decision to wear it.
Heidi> I’ve been on the Fashion Don’t pages many times, but you can’t always listen to what other people say. You have to believe in yourself and, whatever you like to wear, it should be up to you.
Tim> I agree. Listen to your own voice.
MediaBlvd> What do you think is the number one factor in designing a great outfit that's very wearable for people of all styles?
Tim> Knowing your customer. I would hope that anything that’s fashion related, and not just apparel related, will have a particular kind of client. I would never say that something fashion related is for everybody. Clothes are another matter. If it’s a simple article of clothing, anybody could wear it. But, when it comes to fashion, it’s not that simple at all.
MediaBlvd> Are there any twists or surprises to the challenges this year that we should look for, or will anyone be leaving the show early?
Heidi> There’s always lots and lots of drama. And, we always put a twist to it because those things are exciting, especially when I see them in front of me. They all get a little shock because they think that, since this is the fourth season, they already know what’s going on. And, I love it when I can break to the news to them that some things are going a little different, this time around.
Tim> We had one designer who had a difficult time with the experience of the show. He is an incredibly talented designer with an incredibly adapted execution. But, when I probed and asked, “Why does all this surprise you? You’ve seen the show,” the response was, “I didn’t think it was really the way that it appeared on television. I thought that there were days for these challenges, and breaks in between.”
MediaBlvd> Is it hard for either of you to judge the designers equally when you’re rooting for somebody specific?
Heidi> I have to say that I don’t take sides at all. I just look at the clothes and I look at what they say because, for me, it’s important that, as a designer, they can say why they made this garment the way it is. After a big show of Michael Kors, he is backstage, talking to all the press about what his vision was for the season. But, I don’t get to see what Tim gets to see, so I completely look at them in a very dry way. I look at their garment. I look at what the challenge was and I see how they respond to our questions and how they can handle themselves, as a designer, and what they’ve created. I try to keep my emotions completely out of it. I don’t see the behind-the-scenes things until the episodes are being cut, just before they get put on the television. But, by that time, it’s already too late, anyway. Sometimes, when I see those things, I’m surprised about the way they are, and that they all yell at each other and get mad, but I completely keep all my emotions out of it.
MediaBlvd> Tim, during the course of the show, you’re confronted with things, like rule breaking, arguing, distrust, etc. How hard is it for you to mediate that with adults? How do you tackle it when somebody suspects someone else is breaking the rules?
Tim> The most important thing is to address any of those issues, head on, from the onset of knowing about them, and to ideally just nip it in the bud. There are always other aspects to every story, and additional information, that is usually needed and necessary, and that we benefit from. So, we take any flavor of conflict and treat it seriously.
MediaBlvd> What is the viewers’ fascination with your show and with this world of fashion?
Heidi> I think people just really love talented people. These designers make something with their passion, with their love, with their hands, and they have a goal. This is really an art that’s very hard to succeed in. It’s the same thing with painters. It’s a very hard job to break into, and to be successful in, because there are so many that want to do it, and who believe they are very good at it, but some are, and some are not. For people at home who watch this, it’s magical to see what these people do, in a day, sometimes with $20 budgets. It’s just fascinating for people who have nothing to do with this business. Young people on the streets come up to me, and older people come up to me, who always say, “Wow, that was amazing, when they did this, or that,” and they remember certain episodes. Or, I’ll be sitting on an airplane and the stewardesses will say, “I wish you guys could do a challenge around us. I hate my uniform and I want a new uniform. Can you not do a challenge for airline outfits?” So, it’s all different mixtures of people. I always find that people just love to watch talented people at work, and see creativity. It’s just as simple as that.
MediaBlvd> Heidi, do you think that your husband, Seal, would ever be interested in being on the show as a celebrity guest?
Heidi> Maybe. He thinks it’s a fantastic show. And, he loves design. Before he started to become successful as a singer, he actually made clothes, too. He specialized in leather. He’s very stylish. Honestly, he’s more stylish than me. I dress better now that I’m with him because I try to keep up with him. He actually knows how to sew. He knows how sew leather. He was working in a leather workshop in London, where he did patterns and sewed leather pants.
MediaBlvd> You have been married for a while now, but you seem so incredibly crazy in love. How do you keep that spark alive?
Heidi> I think the key is just to be in love, have a great time, and do a lot of things together. And, you have to appreciate each other. That’s what we do.
MediaBlvd> Heidi, you were pregnant during season 2, and we saw you in some fantastic, flattering outfits on the show. And then, just a few months later, you were back to your pre-baby body. How do you do that so quickly?
Heidi> People always want to know the perfect mixture of how it’s done, but it’s individually different. Everyone has their own metabolism and their own way of eating. And, what works for me is that I’m a very healthy person. No matter where I am, I always try to find something that is good for me, but it’s hard sometimes when you’re on set and they bring in pizzas and different things. I try to either order a salad with chicken on it, or I eat the vegetables. I try to pick through the things that are good for me, or I bring something from home. If I’m on a certain set for a long time, where maybe it’s not that healthy, I will just bring something from home, or order something. It’s about eating right, doing a little exercise and moving around. That’s what works for me. I’ve always been like that. I am like that when I’m not pregnant, during a pregnancy and after the pregnancy. It’s my way of living. It’s just the lifestyle that I have.
MediaBlvd> Criticism of the show has said that contestants are kept on because of their personalities rather than their designs. How do you feel about that?
Heidi> Anyone who has watched the show, and is a fan of the show, and who knows how difficult the challenges are, would disagree. I couldn’t do any of the challenges that we give them. They’re really hard. And, if you are not a designer and if you don’t know what you’re doing, you won’t even last the first challenge.
Tim> I’ll say with impunity that that’s preposterous because, being part of the audition process, we bring the pool down to about 120 people and, out of those 120 people, any one of them could have won the entire season. So, when the 120 semi-finalists go forward to the producers, including Heidi and Bravo, I have total confidence in the decision making because the talent is there. The personalities become an aspect of it, but the talent is there for everyone. It’s all about what they produce on the show, and not how loud they are or what antics they’re performing.
Heidi> Also, they are not actors. We don’t tell them what they should say, on or off the show. There’s no lines being learned. These people are the way they are, and people are all different. Some people are a little bit louder, and some are very quiet. Some are older, and some are younger. We really look for the most talented designers to put on the show because we know that it’s hard, and every year we step it up a notch.
MediaBlvd> What advice do you have for college students who are on a budget, but still want to look stylish?
Heidi> You have to be true to yourself. People should be individually different, and part of that is clothes and fashion. As a designer, to bring things out and put them out in the public, you have to believe in what you do, when you design. You shouldn’t budge on anything, or listen too much to what people say. You should create what your beliefs are. And, you should dress the way you want to dress, not to impress someone, and not because other people say that you should do this, that and the other. You should be comfortable in your clothes, and you should like what you’re wearing. That makes you who you are.
Tim> And, it’s all about owning your look. When you do, you navigate the world with great confidence. What more could you want?
MediaBlvd> Is what has gone on in prior seasons informing the strategy and the behavior of current contestants?
Tim> In the end, it’s all about the quality of the work that’s presented on the runway. So, certainly, while the designers on the show can be influenced, impacted or affected, in some way, by what they’ve seen on the show, it’s all about the quality of the product that’s on that runway.
Heidi> They’re all very surprised on how hard it really is. When you see it on TV, it’s once a week, but so much time has passed. When you live in our Project Runway world, while we’re shooting it, it’s very hard for the designers. And, for a lot of them, they get tired fast and say, “Wow, this is hard core. This is serious. I only have so many days to do something like that.” And, sometimes you hear the designer say, “Do people out there know how it is to do this? Do people know that you need a little bit more time to do a Couture outfit?” Normally, people take a week or two to make a Couture outfit, and the contestants have to do it in two days. So, they are really thrown for a loop sometimes. Even though they’ve seen it many times, and they’ve heard other designers talk about it and moan about it, now they’re in their shoes and they’re surprised at how hard it really is. Plus, it’s a television show and we need to have statements from them. All around, it is a lot of work for them, when we’re taping the show. They’re exhausted by the end.
Tim> They can only think about it abstractly before they arrive. But, when they’re actually in the thick of it, it’s daunting and it’s grueling.
Heidi> They want to continue. They don’t want to be kicked off. They don’t want to go. And, they’re sweating when they stand in front of me. When I tell them, “Okay, you’re in,” they jump up through the ceiling. And, when they go backstage, they’re so excited that they can work really hard for the next few days to make it to another round. Even though they work very hard, they have so much passion and they want to succeed. They want to win this thing.
MediaBlvd> Even though people have seen this show, when you gather each cast, is there a common mistake that they make, or a common misconception that they have that shows their weakness?
Tim> Working with them in the workroom, or interacting with them there, the common mistake that I see is not necessarily caring about winning a challenge, but just not wanting to be out. There needs to be a spirit of risk-taking in the successful work, as far as I’m concerned. And, if you’re just playing it safe, you produce work that’s pretty dull and normal, and it’s going to send Heidi, Michael and Nina off to their rooms for a nap. You’re not going to be out, but you’re also not going to win, so what are you really saying about your work and about your future as a designer?
Heidi> Sometimes, someone does get kicked off because it was just the same boring thing, and others took a chance. Sometimes you have to take a chance and wow us because, as designers out there, or as customers, you don’t want to go into a shop and look for the same old T-shirt again, or for the same old black cocktail dress. You want to look for something that you don’t have in your closet. And, it’s the same when we look at their designs on the runway. We want new things. That’s what this whole show is about. We want them to make things that wow us and make us say, “That’s really interesting. I’ve never seen anything like that.”
MediaBlvd> Tim, are you surprised at how fast your “Make It Work” catch phrase caught on? Do you hear it all the time now, and are you sick of it yet?
Tim> I’m never sick of it. It actually came out of my classes at Parsons. It’s a phrase that I use with my students, all the time. I didn’t know it was going to catch on the way that it did. I have people shouting it at me from moving cars. I’m wowed and surprised by the whole phenomenon of Project Runway, and the fact that it’s not just a hit show, it’s become part of our culture. It’s just incredible.
MediaBlvd> Heidi, do you ever get inspired, during the seasons of Project Runway, to work on your own clothing, jewelry, shoes or anything?
Heidi> Yeah. I designed a jewelry line that I’m wearing, throughout 4, that I’m going to be selling on my website. Because I want to look great on stage, I’ve made some great earrings, rings and necklaces, and things like that. I love designing. And, I got great inspiration from the season before, so I designed for myself to wear on season 4. I do get great ideas when I sit there and see the designers because they all look so great and different. Some wear really cool things that I haven’t seen in the fashion world. I love that.
MediaBlvd> Tim, aside from how good all of the designers are, is there anything else that will really set this season apart? Or, is it just about the final runway show?
Tim> I have no doubt that people will enjoy this season, tremendously. Because the level of execution is so extraordinarily high, there’s going to be much more talk at home, about the content of the design work. I know there’s going to be disagreement about the message of the design and the point of view of the designer because those issues are always present in fashion, in general. Do people see fashion the same way? No. They bring their own point of view, their own experience, their own proclivities to the whole experience, and that will be true with this season because, with precious few exceptions, everything is really, superbly made.
MediaBlvd> What are you looking for when you pick your finale guest judge?
Heidi> We really look for someone who is either a fashion icon, or who’s really known for their style. We want someone who loves to wear clothes, who’s innovative themselves, in picking different young designers, who is a designer themselves, or who, like Fern Mallis, has basically seen all the designers. We try to change it up, but always have someone really influential and really strong in the fashion industry.
